Old messages from the DA88 board

I've lost my PCM 800 manual, and also the little faith I had in multinational corporate help, since Sony doesn't care answerin' me.

GRAZIE e ciao a tutti.

- there are two 25 pin connectors for digital aes ebu I/O, but I plan to buy a Yamaha O3D digital mixer which has only one for both ins and outs. Are they compatible? which kinda cable is requested? where can I find one, or at least a diagram of it?

GRAZIE e ciao a tutti.

I'm plained to buy 2 DA-38 but I need to know how can I sync this recording with my fostex analog multitrack. Can I sync via MMC with MMC-32 interface.

I have used this particular unit for a project, and it performed very well. It has very, very minor cosmetic damage, and when it begins to rewind (during the slow part) it makes a sound that makes me think that it sure has rewound a lot of tape, but not that anything is wrong. I wish I could explain it better, but I can't. It seems to be in good health and form. Anybody care to put a price on it for me? thanks

Thanks a lot for your help.

Neel.

Would a MOTU Digital Timepiece be a better route for locking all my devices now (and future gear) than purchasing an SY88 card.

From what I understand the SY88 card is not necessary if you have the MOTU Digital Timepiece. do you eliminate the need to burn a track of SMPTE with the timepiece (the same way you do with the sy88)????? HELP!! thanks a lot!

mark

A simple tape path alignment isn't very time-consuming, and requires no parts, so $300.00 sounds like a pretty high figure. That amount of money would get you more than five hours of labor at our shop.

Sorry you're having problems. I've never seen a DA-38 malfunction in that way, so your problem is a very rare one and by no means should imply that the DA-38 is a piece of #&@&#. Since your machine is less than three months old, I'm sure any Tascam authorized service center will be more than happy to remedy the problem for you under warranty, even if you talk to them the way you've written your post. Civility, though, might get you farther in the long run.

Scott Johnson, Senior Technician, CTG (Tascam DTRS Authorized Service)

TASCAM I DONT LIKE SPENDING 2k FOR A PIECE OF #*!!*!*@@*@#*#

Scott Johnson, Senior Technician, CTG (TASCAM Authorized DTRS Service)

thanks ed croxford

Scott Johnson, Senior Technician, CTG Atlanta (Tascam DTRS Authorized Service)

Scott Johnson, Senior Technician, CTG Atlanta (Tascam DTRS Authorized Service Center)

Scott Johnson, Senior Technician, CTG Atlanta Tascam DTRS Authorized Service

The DA-38 has a switch-mode power supply, while the DA-88 has a linear supply. This generally results in better stability and efficiency, but can result in noise if the supply filters are faulty or if the supply is misaligned or mismatched to the input voltage and frequency.

I would be very interested in the details of your testing, as I would like to try and reproduce your results here.

Scott Johnson, Senior Technician, CTG Atlanta Tascam DTRS Authorized Service

It's a high-speed serial link, basically. Two-way communications go over the bidirectional balanced RS422, ABS time goes out over a separate one-way synchronous link, and word clock and power are carried also. The high-level protocols and data formats are proprietary.

Don't hold me responsible if you get in trouble using this information - it's very, very easy to fry a SYSCON or DSP board by wiring to this connector incorrectly, since none of the inputs or outputs are optoisolated or otherwise protected. Remember, I warned you. :)

--Scott Johnson, Senior Technician, CTG (TASCAM DTRS Authorized Service)

Also any info on the supporting I/O circuitry would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Scott Johnson, Senior Technician, CTG (Tascam Authorized DTRS Service)

Regarding the first problem, it sounds as though the solenoid winding is open. The solenoid is fairly easy to replace, and that should solve your problem.

Your second problem sounds like either humidity. Any helical machine will work best in a dry environment...keep the humidity as low as possible to avoid tape path problems.

The third problem is probably the beginning of a broken left logic cam. You should make sure the left logic cam and sector gear are the new (-03) parts and replace if necessary. Also, we're finding that the loading motors in DA-88's can actually go intermittent, and this will cause an S-err 11. Try a new motor if nothing else seems to fix it.

--Scott Johnson, Senior Tech, CTG (TASCAM Authorized Service)

Your problem sounds like either a partial head clog (which can happen with old or poor-quality tape stock) or a slight misalignment. I would not expect significant head wear at the number of hours you state, although the excessive number of cleaning tape uses can't have helped matters. As George said, you should really reserve use of the cleaning tape for last-resort emergencies.

Stay away from the Maxell tapes. I recommend the HHb tapes as well as the Sony DARS-MP -- in fact, the HHb tapes are reportedly Sony tape in a better shell.

Manually cleaning DA-88 heads is easy, but requires the proper materials and a lot of care. The heads are incredibly delicate -- even turning the drum the wrong way during cleaning can break one.

--Scott Johnson, Senior Tech, CTG (TASCAM Authorized Service)

This is one case where there's a very real reason for using Tascam cables (or at least, Hosa cables made specifically for the purpose).

--Scott Johnson, Senior Tech, CTG (TASCAM Authorized Service)

Thanks for the quick response. Here is what I've learned since yesterday. The heads are said to last for about 1000 hours. Cleaning a head with the cleaning tape subtracts about 5 hours for each cleaning. Given that I've cleaned my heads about 25 times that comes out to 125 hours. I checked the number of total hours on the heads and that indicated about 175 hours. That brings my total head wear up to about 300 hours, about 700 shy of the limit. I'm taking the machines in to have them serviced tommorrow, and my hope is that everything will work fine after a good Pro cleaning. Lately I have been using the TDK Pro brand of tapes. Do you have any experience with these? I had trouble with the Maxells I was using. When I first bought the machines I was using 3M, and these always worked great. I haven't found anything as good since. Have you used the HHB's? Thanks again Bob.

For George Haddad: I've seen what you describe before. Debris on a guide can abrade tape, bad pinch rollers can crease it, and entry, exit, capstan, or impedance roller guide misalignment can jam the tape against a guide flange as it passes, causing edge damage. This sort of damage is visible -- the tape will have an edge that looks like a serrated knife blade, and metal particulates from the tape will collect beneath the guide causing the damage.

Bottom line: YES, a badly aligned, worn, dirty, or sick machine can definitely damage tape.

--Scott Johnson, Senior Technician --CTG Atlanta (Tascam DTRS Authorized Service)

For David (dgek): The answer lies in developing an offset. Find something in the video that you can easily associate with corresponding audio, and park DA-88 and video machine at that spot. Subtract the DA-88 ABS time from the timecode, enter that as an offset, and configure the SY-88 for timecode chase. You can fine-tune the offset as necessary.

For Jeremy Darby: Everyone's heads aren't wearing prematurely, only a small percentage, and there's almost always a traceable cause. Certain brands of tape can cause heads to wear out within 200-300 hours, as can certain environmental conditions (humidity, dust). If I were you, I'd be looking for a cause rather than trashing Tascam.

--Scott Johnson, Senior Technician, CTG --Tascam DTRS Authorized Service Center

LOW *%#$!ING HEAD LIFE. (O.K. FOUR)

COME ON TASCAM GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER, AND REPLACE HEADS FOR FREE.

YES I'M COMING UP ON REPLACING HEADS YET AGAIN, ALL UNDER 1000 HOURS, AND NOT USING THE STUPID HEAD WEARING CLEANING TAPES,

I'M REALLY SICK OF THIS SHIT, THIS IS NOT A JOKE, IT COSTS ME MONEY.

FESS UP TASCAM!!!!!GREAT SOUNDING MACHINES, GREAT TRANSPORT, BUT THESE DAMN HEADS.....

SEE YOU AT THE AES, TASCAM, I'LL BE VISITING YOU AGAIN.

JEREMY DARBY.

1 416 406 3136 EXT 23. CALL ANYTIME.

I know this webpage is devoted strictly to the DA-88, but I was wondering if you had any idea where I might find a users manual for the Tascam 48 reel-to-reel? Tascam wants, like, $60 for the manual and I was hoping to find something similar (cheaper) on the net. Any ideas?

Thanks, Kirk Thomas Seattle, WA

ADAT: Upside: Long head life (2000+ hours), easier maintenance (transport is larger, no jeweler's tools!), larger and tougher tape, 20-bit machines available. Downside: Horribly slow shuttle speeds, frequent mode switch failures, bulkier tape storage, few safeguards against tape damage, and two incompatible formats (20/16 bit).

DTRS: Upside: Blindingly fast shuttle/locate, smart transport logic to protect the tape, compact tape format, more intuitive controls, and better integration with the video post environment. Downside: a somewhat short head life (1200 hours), small parts require a tech with small tools and good eyesight, very sensitive to dust and other environmental conditions.

--Scott Johnson (these opinions are my own, not my employer's.)

A nice, inexpensive, user-replaceable head would be nice, but it's not likely to be a reality anytime soon, for any helical-scan machine. These heads are made to excruciatingly tight mechanical tolerances, by hand, under a microscope. The mounting of the head drum into the machine must be equally precise. You can also imagine how sensitive these assemblies are to handling damage. Add up all those factors, and you get an expensive head that requires significant technical skill to install and align. That holds true for DAT, consumer video, pro video, DTRS, ADAT ... any helical format.

For Mike: Either your rabbet guide is dirty or your entrance guide alignment has drifted. Tracks 1 and 2 are adjacent to the entrance guide in the RF waveform, so any disturbance here will affect them most. Cost to repair? Anyone's guess, but if it's just dirt or alignment, you might get away with nothing more than an hour of labor ($65 here).

--Scott Johnson, Senior Technician, CTG Atlanta (Tascam DTRS Authorized Service)

I was just looking around the web to see if I could get an idea of what used DA-88s go for these days.

I'm considering purchasing one that is in good shape and I think has relatively low mileage on it. It has the sync card installed and is about 3 years old.

Any response will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Sharkey

By the way:

1) What are some good used equipment sources on the web?

And, 2) is there a way to check how many miles a DA-88 has on it?

While I'm at it.. I know this is a DA-88 site, but what would you say is a fair price for a VS-880 with effects card, and a 550mb hard drive - very low mileage. Maybe 30 hours.. ..?

The real question is whether you can tolerate occasional problems like clicks, data failures, clock error messages, etc. If you don't care about it, give it a shot. If your sessions are important (or you have someone paying you), you should simply buy the proper cable and relax.

You should use word clock to keep the data properly sync'ed. This keeps individual 16-bit words synced; it has nothing to do with timecode (e.g. SMPTE), with HH:MM:SS:FF. One can optionally sync other devices to timecode, but word clock (WC) should definitely be used with any digital audio connection.

Choose either the DA-88 or the 01V to be the master. Connect them using 75-ohm cable with BNC connectors. These cables are available at places like Markertek or others. It's best not to use some other BNC cable even if it fits; the circuitry expects a 75-ohm cable impedance. Typically, you can make the DA-88 the master and everything else can slave from there.

If this doesn't solve your problem, you probably have dust or dirt on the guides or supports that place the cassette in the proper position in the transport. Sometimes the small "finger" on the brake cover which reaches up into the cassette and releases the reel locks will become a bit bent, and will prevent the cassette from seating correctly, causing the pin switches to fail to read the coded holes properly.

It's best not to try solving this yourself -- a short trip to the shop is preferable and not terribly expensive ($65.00 or so). You can get into fairly serious trouble bending things in the transport yourself.

Scott Johnson, Senior Technician, CTG (Tascam Authorized Service)

PLEASE GUIDE

Please feel free to e-mail me with any questions or concerns, or for clarification of any of this.

Scott Johnson, Senior Technician Comprehensive Technical Group Tascam Authorized DTRS Service Station (404) 352-3000

If you have this problem, STOP -- any further attempts to get the machine going will damage the tape, and probably damage the machine further as well. Get the machine to a repair shop.

First -- the cleaning upgrade. This consists of two parts -- a new impedance roller with a jewel tape scraper attached, and a mechanical cleaning roller that wipes the heads each time the pinch roller drops. The two together virtually eliminate the need for using the cleaning cassette except in truly extreme circumstances. The parts cost is about $75.00, and very little labor is involved.

Is there not a way to get this correspondence into a list or a newsgroup? Just wondering. You can find me sometimes on the mIRC under these channels /j PROMIDI ;or; /j DA88 ;or; /j SMPTE

Somebody please tell me I did the right thing!

Any insight much appreciated

I sent it off to a TASCAM repair site, and they had to replace the Load Motor --- $270 including shipping -- the failure occurred 30 days after my warranty expired !@#$!% The unit has low hours on it -- 92 hrs at the time of the failure. I must say that I'm disapointed with this failure. I was hoping for a *bit* more reliability than this when I chose TASCAM over ALESIS ADAT. The service center noted that such motor failures are common, but they too were surprised to see it on a machine with such low hours.

I've called Tascam USA to voice my concerns in hope that, given the low hours on the machine, they *might* honor the warranty since it was so close to 1yr.

Thanks, Mino

Pls e-mail at rcol@intergate.bc.ca

Thanks for any help !! I will much appreciate any information or leads!

C.Sinclair

Thanks!

I have checked several months of posts on the net and settled on $2400. I have original packing materials as well. I need to sell it and buy a dreaded ADAT XT for campatibility with some friends.

Email me for more info.

Dave Beaty dbeaty@gate.net http://www.trilogymedia.com

I will manually clean the DA-88 today, but I thought I'd check to see if anyone could offer any help with this error type. Is it possible to have a defective group of tapes that cause this error, or do I have a problem with both the DA-88 and the DA-38. Could a mis-alignment in the DA-88 be actually damaging the tape edge? (I'll look for debris in the tape guides)

Thanks, Dave

Does anyone have a pointer to the protocol used between the RC848 and the DA-88's themselves? I have all the physical info (from inspection of the circuit diagrams). I'm also trying to chase details on the Sony P2 protocol (RS-422 on 9-pin). Thanks in advance.

I have 2 DA-38's and I want to upload tracks to the PC, edit them and send them back down to the DA-38. I know I have to get the T/DIF for the 38 but what is the right card to use for the PC and How do I sync the modified track when I want to get it back to the DA-38.

Thanks Steve Lewis

According to rumour, there's a possibility that the service center sometimes put the wrong type of head in when replacing them. This would cause these exact symptoms. Also, any tapes you record with the "wrong" head may have incompatibility problems.
-J

Any decent feedback would be welcome.

-Bart

Thanks for any info.

Joe

Our studio installed units about as soon as they became available by assisting in beta testing the units in a video application.

We were basically dead in the water until the SY-88 cards eventually became available. Since then... they work GREAT.

I have prepared two cheat sheets which I still have to peek at doing certain functions.

One is for setting them up to do insert editing and the other is for ³stripping² a tape with TC for video.

I¹ll submit the contents in additional postings.

I don't intent to take this sitting down! Any comments?

-Leon Portelance

250-749-6502 Fax: 250-749-4152

Has anyone encountered this? I have midi going out from my MQX32m, and going to a DMT8vl. The midi then goes out to the DA88, and returns from midi out back to the MQX. Am I missing something? Any advice would be appreciated...

Glenn

The tape time (abs) isn't displayed on the counter.

Maintenance manual says that this is caused by tape path needing adjustment. Made sure tape is riding the guides properly, and all waveforms are correct, yet still no tape time display.

Does anyone have any ideas???

Kenn

I've used a momentary-on switch connected to a stereo plug (use tip and sleeve).
-J

Mike Jordan

Ocean Sound & Recording Jacksonville, Florida (904)646-6468

Thanks

Nigel

If some one can help me with some tip, Thack You anticipated.

If you know some TASCAM Technical Support in Miami or near. Said to me. Thaks.

Anyone have plans for making an extremely simple remote for the DA-38? Like just with play, record? No track arming or anything? Locate points would be nice...

Hooman

Tengo problemas con la cinta SONY PRO-MP Hi8, y quisiera saber que tipo de cinta debo usar con estas máquinas.

Si alguien puede contestarme, pueden hacerlo a: jhcuestas@cetcol.com.co.

Gracias por su atencion.

Thanks for your reply

I need some really good books or articles that would help me learn more about sync., time codes, even basic set-up and connection ideas.

The more specific to the DA-88 the better. Any ideas??? Thanks

PIN		Signal
1 		Vcc (5 volts) 
2, 7,		shield Ground 
3		R Rst (out) 
4		R Ena (out) 
5		R Data (in) 
6		Rec Led (out) 
8		R Clk (out) 

-J

GP

Let me know if you've had any similar experiences.

Geno Porfido Chief Engineer/Owner Boulevard Recording Co. 280 Boulevard New Milford NJ 07646

I discovered your very helpful site and just wanted you to know that I have provided a link to it from http://www.users.interport.net/~edaudio/ /

please drop by. I am not finished yet (who is?) but I have some stuff you might be interested in.

ciao

http://www.users.interport.net/~edaudio/

I read your message on the da88 page and remembered to have seen something like this in the rc848 manual. There are two places you can try to get this signal out: On the EXT1 connector, also called ACCESSORY1 that is a 37 pin sub-d connector located on the back side of the remote. The pins are #6, called REC OUT (LOW ACTIVE) and #15, named REC TALLY IN. I never used them to drive external circuits, but if you are careful and skilled in electronics, I guess that there wil be no harm to the remote control. It´s up to you. Best regards R. Bormann

My current plan is to build my own DB25 - 1/4" cables and wire them as follows:

Tape output: + (hot) to 1/4" tip. - (cold) to 1/4" sleeve. float the Ground.

Tape input: + (hot) to 1/4" tip. - (cold) to 1/4" sleeve. Gang all the - (cold)'s together and connect to one of the input ground's not used yet.

Has anybody tried this?

Thanks, Brian

My current plan is to build my own DB25 - 1/4" cables and wire them as follows:

Tape output: + (hot) to 1/4" tip. - (cold) to 1/4" sleeve. float the Ground.

Tape input: + (hot) to 1/4" tip. - (cold) to 1/4" sleeve. Gang all the - (cold)'s together and connect to one of the input ground's not used yet.

Has anybody tried this?

Thanks, Brian

My 4-track had a "sync out" jack for syncing. For the DA-38, should I instead just use a normal output (bal/unbal) to send the signal to the MIDI box?

Thanks for any help,

Gerry

1. Sample rate must be 48hz or it slows down sequence

2. At least 3 blank measures at the beginning of sequence for catch-up time for the DA-88

So now the sequencer runs the show instead of the deck(smpte). The DA-88 waits while you're editing in Cakewalk until you hit play. It's a thing of beauty.

Teac Tech Support says to try replacing the sync cable and terminator plug... What are some ideas? Anyone ever heard of this before?

Two times is not so bad. It's when you get despereate and run it dozens of times that it could be a problem! I think the DA38 has just been released (june?), it's always like that -- takes a month or so before you see them in stores. -J

ps this thing keeps telling me "incompleate post try again"

what the hell is this?

Some sort of bug... sigh. Or could it be some panix web server weirdness? I'll try to fix it one of these days. It appears the text usually gets posted though. -J

Mark

It should be possible, but keeping it in sync is a different story, at least if you need it to be sample accurate. I've dabbled with this type of thing as well, but only with two tracks at a time (using the IF88AE interface and a cheap two track PC DAW) and the only way I could figure out to lock it up sample accurate again is to include a burst of white noise at the beginning of all the tracks (identical on all tracks then), transfer a pair of tracks to the DAW, do the copying/editing/whatever, transfer them back to a slaved DA88, and then tweak the track offset times while listening to the noise from both the original and the newly transfered tracks. It's a fucking hassle, don't try it. :) But maybe something like ProTools can handle this type of thing, I'm not certain. Obviously, if you delete or add samples to the file it's not going to be in sample sync anyway so it doesn'treally matter) -J

I am going to purchase a DA-88 shortly but need some helpful advice. I want to sync up the DA-88 with my Roland MC-50 Sequencer and am wondering whether I need to buy the SY-88 sync card? I read somewhere that the new Mark of the Unicorn Digital Time Piece can sync the DA-88 up without the need for the SY-88. I figured buying the Digital Time Piece might be best since I will eventually upgrade to a computer based sequencer. If I can't use the MOTU synchro unit , can anyone tell me what hardware I will require to lock the DA-88 with my MC-50 sequencer? Also, does anyone happen to know if my MC-50 can be locked to the DA-88 with SMPTE? Thanks, Rob Khurana, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Don't know anything about the MTP, sorry! Anyone? You could always sacrifice one of the tracks for smpte, but the most hassle-free way to go IMHO would be get the SY-88 from the start and just use the MTC it generates. -J

Does anyone have the wiring diagram for the Analog D-sub 25 connectors? I can't find the one that came with my date-y-ate, and I'm trying to wire some cables .

If so please e-me either at the above or at exu@aol.com Many thanks.

OK, here goes: (1,14,2) = hot,cold,ground for channel 8. (15,3,16) = ch 7. (4,17,5) = ch 6. (18,6,19) = ch 5. (7,20,8) = ch 4. (21,9,22) = ch 3. (10,23,11) = ch 2. (24,12,25) = ch 1. (pin 13 is unused.)

-J

Well, if anyone sees this and has one to sell, just use the mailto link! -J

1000 hrs head time nominal. This is the guaranteed life I think. I have no idea what the "MTBF" is. "Real" time will depend on usage. If you figure 10 hrs/week it will be 1000/10 = 100 weeks or 2 years. If you run them 24 hrs/day I guess it will be 41 days! -J

I am looking for this as well, but it's not as urgent now that I have the Tascam AES/EBU interface. (Which works very good, I might add)

(later)
OK, I have the pin-out now. It seems to raise some interesting possibilities as it might be possible to build a passive digital patch bay for these machines. -J

Thanks

It could be the dreaded "worn out head"! They are only guaranteed to last abou 1000 hours I think. Rumor has it that running the cleaning cassette will cost you about 50 hours for each cleaning, too. -J

Although the finished product sounds fine, I'm wondering if the audio version of this format is better for recording Audio or if it's all the same tape inside cassettes marked "Video" or "Audio" for marketing purposes.

Are the two types the same or did my engineer screw up big time? The work was done in a third world country where they don't read English and wouldn't especially "know better".

Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

I use video tape with no problems. At least I don't think it matters at all. -J

No, sounds weird. Ours start pretty much exactly the same time after every locate. -J

There's a company called "Spectral" that makes something that looks quite interesting: it interfaces between TDIF, AESEBU, and the Alesis ADAT format. "Spectral Translator Plus" or some such name. -J

I am looking for recommendations for taking the data off a channel to do spectrum analysis. Any clues?

Bill Ray Louisiana Tech University

You would need a SY88. If the VCR it has a 9-pin type controller port output it should work. Otherwise, if it's a consumer VCR or something, you can always sacrifice one of the audio tracks for time code.. -J

Internally, none. Between two machines with a digital cable you can copy digitally between corresponding tracks (machine 1, track 1 to machine 2, track 1; 1/2 -> 2/2; etc). Of course you can use an analog mixer.. by default, the analog outputs have a 42 sample prelay to compensate for the conversion time in the da/ad converter chain -- so no phase problems result later on play back. -J

I would suggest using Midi Time Code (MTC). On the "S1" dip switch bank (visible thru the SY88 back panel) lip the "#2" switch "UP" (to the "0" position) to enable the SY88 to output MTC, and connect this to your sequencer. Which of course needs to have "sync to MTC" enabled.

The only other dip switches I've had to twiddle are inside the unit (you need to take out the SY88 board). They are on dip switch "S2", switch #6 and #7, controlling MTC output in the STOP and FF/REW modes, respectively. ("1" means "don't output MTC"). When not in "play", the SY88 is by default sending the long MTC messages -- the reason I had to shut them off is that they interfered with a merge box I used. Oh, and for the "S2/#6-7" stuff above, the SY88 version needs to be higher than 3.06, BTW. -J

I've got it on two different DA-88 in 5 days. It has something to do with the Eject mecanism, I think. I used BASF tape.

Njaal F.
See above. -J